There are several Universal Truths about the "cheap Jeep"

"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
08/17/2018 at 21:43 • Filed to: None

The first Universal Truth is that the last guy to work on it (or girl, I don’t judge) was a complete hack.

The second is that there really is no such thing, largely because of the first Truth.

There are others, but they generally lead back to the first couple.

I set out to change the radiator in the new-to-me MJ, in part because it was crusty as all hell, and in part because it apparently had a very sudden and severe overheating problem.

I’m willing to excuse the last guy did this one, but the shiney part is from the bolt spinning uselessly. The nut on the back is secured in a rubber bushing, but the two are now two distinct pieces. Eventually I gave up and just pulled the two Torx screws securing the whole bracket.

I also had a water pump for it because I figured why not. I was actually surprised at how clean it looked. It can’t be original. But I put the new one on anyway. I suspect it’s been weeping but it’s hard to say because of all the goo coming from the thermostat housing and valve cover gasket.

It wasn’t seated properly in the housing, preventing the sealing surfaces from touching. Instead of sitting it in there properly, they just used a ton of RTV to “seal” it, with it looks like the old torn gasket still in there. And it kinda worked, I guess.

But while I was doing that I noticed that the air box clips were all undone. Instantly suspicious, I popped it open, expecting so see a squirrel nest, or something else under the filter... Except in reality all that was in there was an oily schmoo along the bottom of the box.

The guy said the oil had been changed shortly before the overheating incident, and it looked pretty good, so I was just going to let it get to the next even change interval, but seeing no air filter meant it got changed today too. And while I was doing that, I had another WTF moment.

For something that lives in oil vapours and should be getting wiped clean fairly regularly, why is there RUST on my dipstick? How? Before you ask, there was no sign of coolant in the oil, which is a good thing.

However I’m less sure about the coolant itself. The cause of the severe overheating is because there was only about a quart of coolant in the system. And it was murkier than all hell.

That sample is the last of the third gallon of clean water I dumped through the block. Hurk. It had that odd smell of artificial smoke flavouring to it. It didn’t seem like there was oil in it, but when it’s that bad, it’s pretty hard to say.

The “suddenness” of the overheating pretty clearly is because the truck came with an idiot light instrument cluster. The PO changed it out for the full cluster. This is all well and good, but they didn’t change out the sending units. As such the oil gauge simply pegs itself because the signal it’s getting instead of a pressure is either “yes” or “no”. Ditto for the temp gauge. It reads zero if it’s not overheating, then instantly pegs itself the second it overheats, except without a polite accompanying light. Then eventually the engine just gives up in protest because no one noticed the heat. And with near zero coolant, there’s almost none of the typical overheating symptoms.

This is how I’m leaving it for the night. New water pump, thermostat, gaskets, serpentine belt. The radiator’s still in its box. I’ve got a full set of tune-up/ignition components that’ll be at Napa for me tomorrow. Hopefully that takes care of the hard starting. I really can’t trust any of the fluid or wear items on it now.

I still have to do something about the questionable brakes and the whole whack of vacuum leaks I accidentally discovered today. Like this one:

It’s a PVC elbow failing to seal off a tube that’s about 1/2 the size of the rubber elbow. This leak alone was about a 300rpm drop in idle speed. Crazy.

As to the second U niversal Truth... I’m about $500 deep in parts and already, and this is just to make it run properly.

DISCUSSION (20)

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/17/2018 at 22:38

The path to Universal Truth is a steep slope, coated with oil and interspersed with small piles of broken car parts and discarded tools ...

Future Heap Owner > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/17/2018 at 23:34

Thanks for the write-up & wisdom

Aremmes > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/17/2018 at 23:43

The Oily Schmoo is the name of my They Might Be Giants/Beastie Boys fusion cover band.

Nom De Plume > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/18/2018 at 00:14

Tl;dr

Approaching r ealization Jeeps were made to be field repairable. I n fact they do not attain peak performance until improved from their manufactured state through ingenuity. N ot the addition of aftermarket parts.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Nom De Plume
08/18/2018 at 01:10

Field repairs are by nature temporary. No one’s screwing up a thermostat replacement in the field, you pull the old one out and put it back together with an empty housing.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Aremmes
08/18/2018 at 01:11

It's also what should go into a CCv catch can.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
08/18/2018 at 01:14

Jeep is a truck.

Kinja'd!!!

Tristan > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/18/2018 at 01:23

Have you ever purchased a cheap Jeep that came with the battery hold down intact? I haven't. It's the first thing hack Jeep mechanics throw in the garbage. Who needs to secure a battery in an offroad vehicle?

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/18/2018 at 02:55

That just makes the parts bigger, rustier and harder to miss.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Tristan
08/18/2018 at 03:00

Yes I have!

But it’s one out of about, six I think. I still have it. The whole XJ is painfully original, just completely rotten. It’s still sitting in my garage cause I can’t quite bring myself to part it out. All the fender liners, rubber splash guards, etc, are still there in good shape, pretty well everything except the floors, rockers, quarter panels....

Actually come to think of it my first/other MJ had the battery h old down, it was just behind the seats because a battery had been installed that didn’t fit under it. It’s where it belongs now though, because junkyard batteries simply don’t last seven years. It still tested good but you could pull the terminals straight out of the battery and they were getting hot AF so I just got a new one.

So two out of six. That ain’t bad I guess.

Except my first MJ wasn't cheap so I'll go with 1 of 6.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
08/18/2018 at 03:02

On this one the parts are surprisingly not rusty. I don’t entirely understand, but I suppose 172,000km isn’t all that much.

Except for the dipstick tube. I still don't know how the hell that happened.

Longtime Lurker > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/18/2018 at 03:30

The full dipstick or only the top half? The amount of km it has with how old it is could indicate at some point in its life it may have drove many short trips ( ex: daily driver short commute ) which of course would cause excess moisture in the oil. Sometimes dipsticks just get rusty, my BMW’s dipstick is but only spots of pitting and rust(1986 and 307,00km) but your dipstick looks exactly like the one from our 1976 F250.

Tristan > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/18/2018 at 04:15

My WJ was the only Jeep I ever bought with one, and it wasn't cheap or cobbled by a ham fisted shadetree. But if I count it, that's one out of five!

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Longtime Lurker
08/18/2018 at 04:40

I bought it in the city and have no knowledge of the history. My experience with the ability of the stereotypical city folk to maintain their vehicles is, however, not so good. But my opinion is perhaps tainted because my other Jeeps with two or three times the mileage have zero rust on the dipsticks. Do city folk not wipe off the entirety of the dipstick?

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Tristan
08/18/2018 at 04:41

Okay yeah my ZJ also has the hold down. I guess it's just one of those things I don't think about. I'm up to 3 out of 6 now.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Longtime Lurker
08/18/2018 at 04:43

But yes, actually. Top half. But again my other jeeps haven't done this with many more miles.

Longtime Lurker > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/18/2018 at 04:43

Alot of the time the top of the dipstick doesn’t get oil on it so you’d have to wipe the oil up from the bottom, so no the top doesn’t ever get wiped.

Longtime Lurker > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/18/2018 at 04:55

So maybe the cause is from people not wiping the dipstick. or maybe it’s from lots of short trips with the engine not always brought up to temp causing extra moisture in the oil.

Nom De Plume > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/18/2018 at 07:06

Jeep and house repair both baffle and amaze. Though there was historical relevance in my irreverent reply. You do realize it was meant in humor.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Nom De Plume
08/18/2018 at 09:58

I really had no idea what you were getting at there.